TRANSCRIPT

Tashi Delek. Hello everyone. My name is Tsem Tulku, and I am a Buddhist monk from Gaden Shartse Monastery. But Gaden Shartse has split, so we are previously from Gaden Shartse Monastery.

Today, I want to talk about some things because the Tibetan leadership always mention about Dorje Shugden, and a lot of things they mentioned changes over time. I think when people examine it over time, if they look at it carefully it with logic and they debate it out, they would find that the reasoning behind the prejudice and the negative stigma against Dorje Shugden is not logical.

If you have seen any of my other tapes, I already mentioned that I am 52 and I received this practice over 30 years ago from my root teacher, and this was back in the 80s. My root teacher was Kyabje Zong Rinpoche, of course he has passed away. He gave me this practice because I requested the practice to remove obstacles for my life. He personally gave me this practice and personally granted it to me. In Tibetan Buddhism, what your lama gives you, what your lama grants you, what your lama assigns to you, what your guru, your teacher or your lama assigns to you, is what you keep for the rest of your life. No other lama can override the instructions of your root teacher. So if your root teacher tells you to pray to Green Tara for the rest of your life and keep that as your main practice, keep that as your main meditation, keep that as your main yidam, and keep that as your main tutelary deity, and by instruction of your root lama, you can meet a hundred other lamas who recommend you to do instead perhaps Dzambala, so if you meet another lama who tells you to do Dzambala, another one that tells you to do Dzambala, another one that tells you to do Dzambala, you can do Dzambala and incorporate that into your practice, but your main practice, or your root practice or your focus should still be Green Tara.

If another teacher tells you that Dzambala will be more effective for you and you should do Dzambala instead of Green Tara, or you should stop Green Tara altogether or you should spend more time on Dzambala instead of Green Tara then you can politely tell the other teacher or the other masters, “thank you for your advice, it’s very kind of you but I will continue my Green Tara practice”. The reason is because it was assigned to you by your teacher, the person you chose, the person you have agreed with, the person you have in your heart and said this is my root teacher for life. We can have 20 teachers, 15 teachers, 30 teachers, 16 teachers. We can have many teachers, but the root teacher is the one that touches us the most. The one that influences us the most. The one that inspires us the most. So that is the one that we listen to primarily. If we have other teacher, we can add on to what our root teacher said. For example, if our root teacher said that we have to do 100,000 prostrations and the other teacher says that we should do water offerings, we can do prostrations and water offering, but at no time do we substitute our root teacher’s instruction. At no time do we eliminate or delete our root teacher’s instruction for another teacher’s, even if another teacher is very famous, even if another teacher is very great and very well-known, very renown, and very erudite. It doesn’t matter because we should not switch teachers on the basis of fame, or name, or how many people they have. We should stick to our root teacher because we have checked out our root teacher, we have agreed for this person to be our root teacher, we have agreed to follow our root teacher.

The hour-long filming took place in Rinpoche’s study and office

So, in the Tibetan Tantric tradition, it’s very important once we have committed to our root teacher you follow our root teacher and his or her instructions all the way until the end of our lives, and no other teacher can override that.

So, I myself have 16 teachers. I have received teachings on various sutras and tantras, and many transmissions and commentaries from these 16 teachers, but my primary and root teacher whom I chose was H.H. Kyabje Zong Rinpoche. So, what I practice, what I meditate on, what I do daily in my recitation, and in my meditation and contemplation are what Zong Rinpoche gave me primarily. I have some practices and meditation given to me by my other teachers, but I do mainly what Zong Rinpoche gave me. And if I was to ever change what Zong Rinpoche gave me, or to delete or to amend or to adjust, I would need Zong Rinpoche’s permission. But some people might ask, what happened if Zong Rinpoche has passed away and he is not around or you are not able to get a hold of him. Well, whatever you promised him last, you have to keep that promise. That means if we promise him to do certain practices, since we cannot get his permission to stop the practices, we must continue the practices. This is called samaya or guru devotion or integrity. Having integrity for our gurus. We should not give up our practices because we are lazy, we should not give up our practices because we find excuses not to do it, we should not give it up because we don’t see any results, because the results come over time as everyone is different.

We should not give up the practices because another guru told us to, we should not give up our practices because someone famous told us to, we should not give up the practices if someone told us that our practices are not effective or not good. Why? This is because we have already taken refuge and our faith with our teacher, our root teacher. Whatever our root teacher has given us is what we must stick to. If we are not going to stick to it, we have to seek the permission of our root teacher to be excused from it.

If our root teacher has passed away, not around or uncontactable, then we have to keep doing our practice. If we delete or adjust the practice of our root teacher, overriding them with another teacher’s advice, then what happened? It says in the 50 Verses of Guru Devotion by Ashvaghosha, that one will not gain results from one’s meditation. For example, Milarepa studied with the great Marpa and Marpa did not give him much Dharma in the beginning. Milarepa did many negative actions that that would become obstacles to his meditational practice. So Milarepa being someone with a lot of negative karma, Marpa in his compassion decided to purify the karma of Milarepa before giving him teachings and even higher teachings. For years, Milarepa cooked for Marpa, the wife Damema and the child. He did farming for his guru, he was cutting wood, he was planting, he was harvesting, cultivating, he did a lot a lot of work for his guru.

Every time his guru Marpa gave teachings, Milarepa would go into the teachings but he would be escorted out. Marpa would wrathfully tell him to get out and don’t come for the teaching. So, after a few years of working so hard for the guru, serving the guru, and being around the guru, all Milarepa ever received was scolding and he was not allowed to go to any of the teachings. So Milarepa became very disheartened. His guru’s wife, Damema felt a lot of pity and compassion for Milarepa. She wrote a letter in Marpa’s name and she took a gift, a big piece of turquoise in Marpa’s name, gave it to Milarepa and sent him to one of Marpa’s leading students to receive teachings. Milarepa, with the letter and the gift was sent off and he left Marpa’s house to receive teachings from one of Marpa’s main students. When he arrived at the house of Marpa’s main student, when this person read the letter and saw the gift, he immediately obeyed because he thought Marpa had ordered him to teach and give teachings to Milarepa. Milarepa never told him Marpa gave permission for him to teach Marpa’s students. Marpa never said that anyone can teach Milarepa and Milarepa kept quiet. Marpa’s student then gave very powerful teachings to Milarepa from esoteric teachings, initiated him into Tantra and put him inside a cave nearby to meditate. The practice that this person gave to Milarepa was very potent, and most people who did this meditation would receive signs within a few months. He would give teachings and instructions to Milarepa and Milarepa would go and meditate. A few weeks later, he asked Milarepa whether Milarepa received any signs, “Did you receive any signs, did you have any dreams, did you experience this?” Milarepa would say no. Then the same thing would happen again. He would call him back and ask, “Did you experience any dreams or any signs or any sort of auspicious omens?” Milarepa would again say no.

So, it confuses the teacher, and he would have said, “That’s impossible! That’s impossible that I gave you these teachings and there were no signs.” So, he decided to question Milarepa stronger. What he asked Milarepa was, “Did Marpa actually send you here? Did Marpa actually ask you to come here to receive teachings?” That was when Milarepa confessed, “No, he did not. His wife sent me.” So, the student of Marpa was very upset and ashamed. He immediately packed up Milarepa’s things, took Milarepa back to Marpa’s house, prostrated to Marpa and said, “I am so sorry, Great Marpa. I have been teaching your students without your permission.” And then he realised that by teaching Marpa’s student without the permission of the guru, Milarepa did not receive any signs.

This story represents that when we do not have our guru’s/ teacher’s permission, it is very hard to get signs in Tantric practices. Similarly, if our teacher gave us a practice, if we practice it, we believe and we trust, we will get very powerful siddhis.

Now what I want to speak about today was His Holiness Kyabje Pabongka Dorje Chang, His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang, His Holiness Kyabje Zong Dorje Chang and many other well-known lamas from Gaden, Sera, Drepung, Tashi Lhunpo and Amdo Tashi Kyil who have taught the lineage, practices and gave initiations of Dorje Shugden to tens of thousands of students for the last 400 years. Prior to Pabongka Rinpoche, tens of thousands of students have received the practice, the lineage and the meditation of Dorje Shugden in the Sakya lineage. Within the Gelugpa lineage and from Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Zong Rinpoche, thousands of students have received Dorje Shugden practice.

To do Dorje Shugden practice, you request your teacher and your teacher would give you a life entrustment which is sogtae. Sogtae is literally translated as life entrustment ceremony and that’s when the guru tells Dorje Shugden to watch this disciple until he gains Bodhicitta. And then the disciple would make a vow to Dorje Shugden that he would hold Dorje Shugden as his principal protector until he achieves Bodhicitta. So the student is bound to the protector by the power of the lama. The lama or the guru introduces Dorje Shugden to the student, the student agrees, then the lama will ask Dorje Shugden to take this disciple to watch over and to care for this student until he or she achieves Bodhicitta, and the agreement is made. When the agreement is made and solidified by the ceremony and offerings that is embodied in a sogtae, when you received that sogtae from your lama, you practice Dorje Shugden for the rest of your life. Most of us have received sogtae although it is a secret practice, just like most of Tantra is and we cannot give that practice up.

So, His Holiness the Dalai Lama whom I respect very much and the Tibetan leadership have asked us to give up Dorje Shugden. They have stated many reasons why we should give up Dorje Shugden and I know many great Tulkus, Geshes, masters, yogis and Mahasiddhas whom I have met personally have told me that Dorje Shugden is no other than the Buddha, and no other than Manjushri himself. So, I have met many great masters in Gaden, Sera and Drepung. Some have passed away and some are still alive. We are talking about erudite masters who are top in debate class, top in scriptural class, top in the study of Tantra, graduated from Tantric colleges such as Gyuto and Gyume monasteries. Gyuto and Gyume Monasteries are where the monks from Gaden, Sera and Drepung will go to study the Tantra. So, I have met monks, lamas, yogis, Geshes and high lamas who have graduated from Gyuto and Gyume, who were excellent in drawing a mandala, who were excellent in rituals, masters of Sang De Jig Sum, Yamantaka, Guhyasamaja, Heruka, they are masters of Do and Ngak, Do Ngak, the Sutra and Tantra and they are excellent in debate and some of them are abbots. They themselves are abbots and they have ordained hundreds of monks. They themselves have told me many many times that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha.

Therefore when the Tibetan leadership says that Dorje Shugden is not a Buddha and that he is harmful, it makes me think how is that possible? How is it after 400 years of thousands and thousands of Sakya disciples, monks, nuns and lay people, tens of thousands of Gelugpa lay people, monks, nuns and high lamas have been practicing Dorje Shugden, that in these 400 years no one saw that he is negative, that he is a horrible spirit and he is a harmful spirit? Why is it that none of these lamas for the last 400 years, I am talking about hundreds of erudite masters, did not get signs, dreams and indications that he is negative. In fact, instead of saying he is negative, they are saying that he is enlightened and he is Manjushri.

So now, I think there is a very good solution for all of this. I think there is a very good solution for all of this. What I want to talk about is how the Tibetan leadership tells us that Dorje Shugden harms the Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden harms Nyingma people, Dorje Shugden harms people who don’t stay within the Gelugpa school. So, what I wanted to do was to offer some simple examples of how all of this is absolutely not true.

1. For Tibetans, for people who study in the monasteries, the steps and stages for persons to purify their mind, to realise emptiness, and to gain full omniscience are not easy tasks. Once you gained omniscience or you become a Buddha, when you become a fully enlightened Buddha Chom Den Day, or one who has jumped over samsara, who has left samsara, it can never reverse back. What does that mean? It simply means that once you become a Buddha, you can never become un-Buddha, you cannot be not a Buddha anymore. So once you become a Buddha, you are a Buddha. Once you become a Buddha, your body, speech and mind become one. So you can emanate in thousands of forms, you can emanate in hundreds and hundreds and thousands and thousands of locations in samsara.

Remember, planet earth is just one speck in samsara. There are thousands, millions, billions, and trillions of universes, solar systems, existences, on different planes; there’s the form realm, formless realm, desire realm. Within the form, formless and desire, which is Do Jya Kyi Kam Dang Su Kam, formless realm, form realm, desire realm, within those places, there are billions and billions of existences. So samsara isn’t just planet earth. There are Buddha’s teachings in many places many dimensions, places that are different that are not even remotely similar to us because a kangsa, or a living being is not dependent on just having one face and two arms and looking like a human. There are humanoids all over, therefore a Buddha can appear all over the universe, all over in time. They can appear as animals, they can appear as animate objects and inanimate objects. There are no limitations of how these beings can appear.

Therefore, in Tibet, in the Indian Mahasiddha tradition, in the Tibetan tradition, we know and we believe that once a person becomes enlightened, they are enlightened on the basis of their Bodhicitta and their realization of shunyata or emptiness. It can never ever reverse and due to their powerful realisation or the achievement of Bodhicitta, they will continuously emanate to benefit beings. They will emanate as good people, as bad people, as women, as men, as robbers, as prostitutes, as presidents, as kings, as monks, as high lamas, they will emanate as beggars, as Mahasiddha, as yogis, and even as crooks and robbers. They will emanate in many forms because each one of those emanations play a different type of function, to benefit certain group of beings.

Similarly in Tibet, we believe that His Holiness the Dalai Lama is a highly realised being and he is in fact Avalokiteshvara (Chenrezig). Some people may believe that he is Chenrezig Avalokiteshvara, some people may not believe that. Let me go on the route that people believe he is Avalokiteshvara, which means that he is a 10th stage Bodhisattva – one who cannot return back to samsara, one who has achieved Buddhahood. Some people may say that Chenrezig is someone who defers his enlightenment in order to benefit sentient beings. That is according to the Sutra view. On Tantra view, Avalokiteshvara is fully enlightened, manifesting as a Bodhisattva. Therefore, if we take the Tantric view, Avalokiteshvara is a fully enlightened Buddha, manifesting as a 10th stage Bodhisattva, manifesting as one of the eight main disciples of Shakyamuni Buddha in order to question Shakyamuni so that Shakyamuni will be prompted to turn the wheel of Dharma. This is because without requesting teaching, you cannot get teaching. Avalokiteshvara is actually a fully enlightened Buddha.

In fact, if you actually listen to some of the Dalai Lama precious teachings, His Holiness the Dalai Lama has mentioned a few times in his teachings, which I heard, that sometimes he has deja vus and premonitions that he was sitting in the audience 2,500 years ago listening to Shakyamuni as he taught. He has this kind of premonitions or type of feeling, remembrance of previous lives that he was a direct disciple of Shakyamuni and was sitting there in the audience on the outskirts. He mentioned that himself, I heard that myself. I don’t doubt that at all. Many people in the Tibetan society, many people believe His Holiness to be Avalokiteshvara. He has shown many signs to be a sublime being, to be a highly realised being, to be a powerful being. Therefore, since the Dalai Lama is Avalokiteshvara, he is an enlightened being. If he is an enlightened being, he is free from all karma; he is free from all results of karma, and the creation of karma. He creates no karma. Since he creates no karma, he is unable to experience the result of negative karma.

A negative condition that the Dalai Lama comes across, is not the condition that he experiences or creates on his own or that is the result of his own karma. It’s the result of the people around him. He needs to go through with this people and experience their karma in order to benefit them. If he is in the hot place, it is not his karma that makes him suffer the heat, it is the karma of the people in that area. Therefore, when he goes to that area, he feels the heat and he experiences the heat, but it is not the result of his negative karma, that is what the Tibetans believe.

Now if that is the case, if HH the Dalai Lama is Avalokiteshvara Chenrezig, he is omniscient, he is all-knowing, he has full clairvoyance, he has full Tantric power and Mahasiddha power, he is basically a Buddha. He is a Buddha emanating in a form of a man, in a form of a human being, in a form of a great monk. Although he is emanating as a great monk, he still is a Buddha. Therefore, how can a Buddha be harmed by evil spirit? How can Dorje Shugden harm the Dalai Lama? If Dorje Shugden can harm the Dalai Lama, then the Dalai Lama cannot be a Buddha. So, if we say he is a Buddha, it creates a lot of other questions. Then similarly, how can Dorje Shugden harm any high lama who has achieved high realisation? It is impossible.

Therefore, if I practice Dorje Shugden and I attend the Dalai Lama’s talks, the Dalai Lama’s ceremony, and I attend the Dalai Lama’s religious rites, there is no way I can harm him. The reason why there is no way I can harm him is because the Dalai Lama has no karma to be harmed. Therefore, when people say Dorje Shugden will shorten the Dalai Lama’s life, Dorje Shugden will harm the Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden will obstruct the Dalai Lama’s wishes, that is impossible. Why is that impossible? How can any so-called negative being harm an enlightened Buddha? If the Dalai Lama can be harmed, there is no point for us to take refuge in a Buddha. There is no point in us meditating and aspiring to become a Buddha because if we become a Buddha and we can be harmed, then what’s the point of becoming a Buddha? What is the point? So that does not make sense at all.

2. Let’s say there is another school of thought, perhaps in the West that does not really believe that the Dalai Lama is the emanation of Avalokiteshvara, we still have to accept that he is a monk and he has held his vows. He is a pure monk and he has been a monk for over 67 years. It is said in the Vinaya Sutra that those of us who take on the robes and take on the vows of a monk, the gods, devas and spirits cannot harm us. Demons and magic cannot harm us because we are holding the vows given to us originally from Shakyamuni Buddha. So, by having the vows of a Sangha, without doing any rituals, without doing any sort of special practices or meditation, we are actually protected from negative spirits, demons, ghosts, magic and harm.

If an ordinary monk like myself is protected from negative spirits or negative demons, magic and curses, surely someone as enlightened, attained, and as pure as the Dalai Lama cannot be harmed. If you look at it carefully, the Dalai Lama cannot be harmed because he is Avalokiteshvara and Avalokiteshvara cannot be harmed. Whatever we do around Avalokiteshvara, nothing bad will happen to him. For example, at the last stage of Lord Buddha’s enlightenment, in the fourth watch of the night, when Mara came and he emanated as beautiful ladies to seduce the Buddha. He emanated as powerful warriors shooting weapons, molten lava, and throwing boulders and all kinds of fearful weapons, he tried to throw Buddha off, he was not able to. At the last stage when Buddha reached the last point when he let go of his “I”, he became enlightened. Mara and his games, his threats, and all his magical illusions cannot harm the Buddha. Therefore, we can conclude that the Buddha has no karma to be harmed. That goes for any Buddha, it is not just the historical Buddha, any Buddha. Therefore, the Dalai Lama being a Buddha cannot be harmed- cannot be harmed by Dorje Shugden, cannot be harmed by anyone. There is no need for restrictions of Dorje Shugden practitioners.

Secondly, in Tibetan Buddhism, we have many powerful rituals. Powerful magical rituals to bind spirits, to control spirits, to negate spirit or to even destroy spirit if they are very harmful and send their consciousness to a Buddha realm. For example, the State Protector of Tibet, who is used by the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan leadership, his name is Nechung. Nechung is actually not a Tibetan deity. According to John Avedon, in his book ‘Exile from the Land of Snows’, in the chapter called The Wheel of Protection, he wrote very clearly and I have checked what he wrote with other lamas and my Gurus, that Nechung is a very evil, negative, harmful spirit that originally came from Persia. He came with the traders and ended up in Tibet.

When Tibet was practicing shamanism and nature worship, the Tibetan King started inviting Buddhist masters to Tibet. When they invited the first masters, such as Santarakshita, then Nechung, along with his host of minion of spirits and demons, and the other mountain gods of Tibet, who were against Buddhism, started to create a lot of obstacles such as hail, fire, and earthquakes, to prevent these Buddhist masters from giving teachings.

So, when the first teacher Shantarakshita, who was a very renowned, erudite, and learned monk tried to give teachings, something would happen that would stop the teaching. For example, there would be hail and people could not come to the teachings, or the tent where he was to teach would fall.

Since Shantarakshita did not have any occult abilities, he told the Tibetans, I’m not able to do much here, but you must invite the occult Tantric master Guru Padmasambhava. If you invite him, he will be able to proliferate the Dharma in Tibet. The King and leaders of Tibet listened to him and they invited the great master Lopon Rinpoche or Guru Rinpoche to Tibet. When Guru Rinpoche came, sure enough Nechung did his job again, and they went into psychic wars. There were many psychic battles, they fought and in the end, Nechung lost. Nechung then appeared as a young boy to Guru Rinpoche, folding his hands and said, “I submit to you”. Guru Rinpoche took his vajra, placed it on the boy’s head, took some of his inner offerings, which is alcohol and placed it on the boy’s tongue, ordaining him as a protector of the Dharma. He made Nechung swear that in the future, he would do no harm to the Tibetan nation, that he would bring no obstacles to the growth of Buddhism in Tibet. In fact in the future, a couple of hundred years later, after Guru Rinpoche passed away, there would be an incarnation, the Holder of the Lotus, and that is another epithet for Avalokiteshvara, who would come to Tibet and Nechung would assist him to proliferate the Dharma, and to that Nechung had sworn.

Guru Rinpoche was able to go into psychic battles, overcoming this pernicious, evil, malicious and very malevolent spirit that was very powerful, who could even chase away Shantarakshita. Nechung was subdued, bound and made to swear to protect and help the Dharma by Guru Rinpoche. We have to realise that Guru Rinpoche, being an enlightened being, has the quality that all enlightened beings have. Surely, the Dalai Lama and the High Lamas of Tibetan Buddhism can get together and do a puja or binding ritual to capture Dorje Shugden, capture his spirit, and make him swear to stop harming, maybe even turn him into a Dharma Protector. I don’t understand why His Holiness the Dalai Lama and many other High Lamas do not have a little Tantric get together, call Dorje Shugden, bind him and make him swear as was done to Nechung by Guru Rinpoche.

Now if we bind Dorje Shugden, since we are here to assume he’s negative and he’s so powerful, and everybody is so afraid of him, surely an enlightened being, a Tantricly-attained being such as the Dalai Lama can bind him. If the Dalai Lama cannot bind Dorje Shugden, then what does it say about Dorje Shugden, that Dorje Shugden is more powerful than the Dalai Lama? Or that the Dalai Lama does not have the power to bind him? How could that be? How can the Dalai Lama, who is a Buddha, not be able to bind an evil spirit? If we bind Dorje Shugden, guess what will happen? Then the Tibetan Government in-Exile, which is called the Central Tibetan Administration or in short, the CTA in Dharamsala, do not have to write negative things about Dorje Shugden on their websites, nor do they have to advise people against Dorje Shugden on Tibet.net and DalaiLama.com. They have sections where they actually advise you against practising Dorje Shugden, warning you how negative Dorje Shugden is, and frightening you by telling you how evil he is. It is similar to the age-old battle between God and the Devil in Christianity. My question is, God can just get rid of the Devil and then nobody would sin again. So why leave the Devil alive? Surely God is more powerful than the Devil? Similarly, you have the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden in Tibetan Buddhism. Surely the Dalai Lama is more powerful than Dorje Shugden. I am not saying this to be facetious, to be sarcastic, or try to infer something.

I really believe the Dalai Lama is very powerful and he is enlightened, I never ever thought otherwise. Among my students, I have never said even one negative word about or against His Holiness the Dalai Lama and that is my policy because I respect him very much. If the Dalai Lama would bind Dorje Shugden and do a puja to bind him, well guess what? We don’t have to spend money on writers, on website masters, on people who maintain the websites, and the servers to have sections on DalaiLama.com or Tibet.net that specifically talk against Dorje Shugden. You can save yourself time.

The second thing is, His Holiness the Dalai Lama during his Dharma talks year after year, month after month, always slips in a word or two about how bad Dorje Shugden is, how we should not practice him and that we should be careful of him. Well, my very respectful request to His Holiness is that he does not need to warn us about Dorje Shugden anymore if he would just bind Dorje Shugden and make him into a positive being, just like what Guru Rinpoche did to Nechung. Remember, Nechung in Tibetan history and Tibetan Buddhist history, is actually a negative evil spirit that was bound to help. You can do research. In fact, the Dalai Lama says that Nechung’s picture, the depiction of Nechung should not be put on the altar equal with Dalai Lama, but on a lower space. Then on top of that, the Tibetan government do not have to spend hundreds of thousands of rupees on writers and contract people to write books, and then print thousands of books, distributing them all over the world to all types of people to discourage them against Dorje Shugden. They can save money on that.

If the Dalai Lama and other High Lamas of Tibetan Buddhism keep talking about how harmful Dorje Shugden is, how we should stay away from Dorje Shugden, how if you practice Dorje Shugden you should not go to their Dharma talks; with the deepest respect, it makes the Dalai Lama and other High Lamas look pretty impotent. It makes them look pretty powerless. How can the Dalai Lama and all these High Lamas be afraid of a spirit? Why don’t all these High Lamas or the Dalai Lama, or together, bind the spirit? Call him, bind him and keep him quiet once and for all. Now if Dorje Shugden is such an evil, malevolent spirit, there are rituals that you can use to sever his consciousness and send his consciousness to the pure land. There are rituals for that, such as fire pujas. In a fire puja, for example, in a Yamantaka fire puja, you can invite the negative consciousness of the evil spirit to come onto your ladle, and with meditation, mantra, mudra, and pure samadhi, that’s concentration, you can dump the consciousness of the evil spirit into the wisdom fire, and from that the consciousness burns, and immediately it takes a new rebirth in a pure land of a Buddha. When we do fire pujas of Yamantaka, you can definitely do things like that. You can send this spirit to another place.

Another question is, we have Nechung, another famous protector Palden Lhamo, Mahakala Gonpo Chadrugpa – Six-armed Mahakala, Gonpo Chashipa – Four-armed Mahakala, Gonpo Sheshipa – Four-faced Mahakala, Gongkar – White Mahakala, Chamsing, Namsey – Vaishravana, Citipati – Kinkara, Kalarupa Chinangsum – Choegyal Chinangsum (inner, outer and secret Kalarupa), we have all these powerful protectors. Are you telling me Dorje Shugden is more powerful than all of them? If we pray to Palden Lhamo or we pray to Mahakala, you mean they cannot protect us from a negative evil spirit? Why cannot they protect the Tibetan nation, the Dalai Lama, and the Tibetan people from one evil spirit? Does that make sense to you? Is Dorje Shugden more powerful than all these protectors? Well you say “No, he is not, he definitely can be subdued by these powerful protectors.” Well, if he can be subdued by Kalidevi Palden Lhamo, Kalarupa Damsing Choegyal, Gonpo Chadrug – Six-armed Mahakala, Namtose – Vaishravana, if he can be subdued by these protectors, then why are these protectors not subduing him? Why are these protectors allowing him to create havoc and broken samaya within the Gelugpa school of Buddhism? Doesn’t make sense. Either he’s more powerful than these protectors, or these protectors know that he’s not an evil spirit and there is nothing to subdue. Surely these protectors can protect us, right?

In the late nineties and early two thousands, when I was in Gaden Monastery, the CTA spread news that if we practice Dorje Shugden, it becomes a conflict with Nechung. If it becomes a conflict with Nechung, then Nechung cannot help us get Tibet back. Because when people practice Dorje Shugden, Dorje Shugden creates obstacles for people to get Tibet back. That also does not make sense. How can one single so-called ‘evil’ spirit block the Dalai Lama to get our country back? How can he block Ling Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche, and all the other High Lamas of the other lineages? How can Dorje Shugden block all the Dharma Protectors, block the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, the arhats, the Dakas, Dakinis, the enlightened supramundane protectors, and the Twelve Goddesses of Tibet – Tenma Chunyi? How can he block everyone and their power and their blessings to get Tibet back?

You mean all the Dharma Protectors, all the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, deities, Yidams, Tutelary Deities, High Lamas, the Dalai Lama, and the lineage lamas, all of them do not have enough power to overcome one evil spirit? That also does not make sense. It does not make sense at all. Therefore, Dorje Shugden cannot harm the Dalai Lama. Dorje Shugden cannot harm any monks or nuns. Dorje Shugden cannot harm any sentient being, especially if they have refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha, or if they practice Palden Lhamo, Mahakala, or Kalarupa. Dorje Shugden cannot harm the wishes of Tibet, some Tibetans wish for independence, some wish for autonomy. Rangzen (independence), Umaylam (the Middle Way or autonomy policy), they have various wishes. But the point is that Dorje Shugden cannot block the wishes of Tibetans. If that is the case, what is Dorje Shugden actually harming? What is Dorje Shugden harming if you think about it?

Everyone can go the Dalai Lama’s teachings, if you practice Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Shintoism, Jainism, Druid, witchcraft, Voodoo. I mean, there are people who actually practice Satanism, that practice the Devil. They actually pray to the Devil and make animal sacrifices and blood sacrifices. In Western countries, it is enshrined in democracy that you can practice any religion you want, as long as it follows the law. So, there are people in Western countries who practice Satanism. There are Satanists that creates harm, there are Satanists that does not create harm, there are different types of Satanism. Same thing with Voodoo, there is White Voodoo, and there is Black Voodoo. All these people and atheists can attend the Dalai lama’s rituals, Kalachakra, teachings. You know when they are attending these teachings many of them are not going there to really attend the teachings, they are just looking, watching and just kind of listening to what he is saying. They are allowed to attend, but Dorje Shugden people are not allowed to attend.

That is really strange because Dorje Shugden people believe in the Buddha, believe in the lineage lamas, believe in the Dharma, believe in the Sangha. They hold their vows, they practice the same meditational deities. They belong to Gaden, Sera, Drepung. So what does not make sense is why only the Dorje Shugden people cannot attend teachings by the Dalai Lama? Some people might argue that since your faith is different from the Dalai Lama’s you cannot go, but there are many people in the Dalai Lama’s audience who are not Buddhists, who do not subscribe to the Buddha’s teachings, who do not believe or trust the Buddha’s teachings, but they like to go and listen to the Dalai Lama. They are allowed to go. We, Dorje Shugden people, believe in the Buddha, believe in the Dharma, believe in the Sangha, but we are not allowed to go because we practice Dorje Shugden.

How about people who practice New Age religions? They practice a mishmash of different religions, not that it is wrong, that is their choice. Some people practice Krishna, Jesus and Buddha, they put it all together and they practice a little bit of Voodoo. They do Druid practices, they do nature practices, they worship the Goddess Ishtar, Isis, Satan, they do all that – do a little mishmash, and they go to the Dalai Lama’s teachings. Their religious views are completely opposite, wouldn’t that contradict the samaya with the Dalai Lama? The samaya is the religious relationship with the Dalai Lama. That does not make sense.

The Dalai Lama is not only the spiritual leader of the Tibetans, he is also the secular leader and the King of Tibet. Maybe recently he has passed some of that responsibilities to somebody else, but behind the scene, he is still the biggest leader in Tibet. He would always be, forever. As a secular leader of Tibet who speaks for the Tibetan people – their welfare, their languages, their culture, their music, their cuisine, their health, their education, he’s a secular leader. As a secular leader, why is it that when he gives a public talk, Dorje Shugden people are not allowed to attend? Why is it that in the Tibetan government, Dorje Shugden people are not represented? They are not allowed in the monasteries, they are not allowed in the Tibetan hospitals, they are not allowed in the Tibetan institutions and schools. It is clear in the Tibetan government charter that if you practice Dorje Shugden, you cannot work for the Tibetan government. So how come Dorje Shugden people are not represented in the Tibetan Parliament? I mean whether we practice Dorje Shugden, or we do not practice Dorje Shugden, we should be represented because we are Tibetan people. People are people regardless of their religion. So, that does not make sense.

We have many paranormal shows these days that have psychics who can see spirits. They do healing, exorcism, clearing, they send the spirits into the light, there are many psychics these days that go to houses and say “Oh wow, there’s this ghost here, there’s this demon here, there’s this spirit, and I’m going to send them into the light and clear them”. You have hundreds of psychics and hundreds of paranormal shows these days, you can go onto Youtube and see these psychics sending evil spirits into the light. Why does not one single Tibetan lama send Dorje Shugden into the light? Then we never have to talk about him again. And then we can all unite, we can sit together, we can all be friends, we can be one. Wouldn’t that be very good?

For example, if one great Tibetan lama would send Dorje Shugden into the light, and he has gone, he does not exist anymore, even if we have pictures, thangkas, statues, tsa tsas or drawings of him, we are praying to a dead spirit, a dead God. So, nobody should be afraid of a dead God or a dead spirit. So why does not one Tibetan lama do that? If the Tibetan lamas cannot send Dorje Shugden into the light, why don’t they Google and find a psychic in Europe, in America or Asia, and hire the psychic to send Dorje Shugden into the light? Then guess what? We do not need to be afraid of him anymore. We do not need to have websites against him. We do not need to write books against him. His Holiness the Dalai Lama does not need to speak against him. We do not have to separate the monasteries, we do not have to separate Dorje Shugden [practitioners], alienate and segregate them anymore. Then these people are not Dorje Shugden people anymore, they become just people. Wouldn’t that be nice?

In conclusion, the Tibetan CTA (Central Tibetan Administration) will save themselves a lot of money and headaches if they send Dorje Shugden into the light. What do you think?

First, there are many rituals in Tibetan Buddhism to bind, exorcise a negative spirit to send them away, bind them to stop doing negative harm or to bind them and turn them into positive beings. Some rituals even destroy their consciousness and send their consciousness to a higher plane to take rebirth. Why doesn’t one Tibetan lama do that instead of talking about how evil the spirit is, making chakras, and all kinds of amulets against him? This is ridiculous.

Secondly, the Dalai Lama is a Buddha and when we take the Dalai Lama as our guru, he protects us. We are in his divine mandala. Dorje Shugden cannot harm the Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden will not harm the Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden is unable to harm the Dalai Lama. Dorje Shugden cannot harm the Dalai Lama because the Dalai Lama is a Buddha.

Thirdly, all of us who take refuge in the Buddha, who surrender ourselves and trust in the powerful compassion of the Buddha, in the realisation of the Bodhicitta and Shunyata of the Buddha, and we practice the Dharma, we totally have respect for the Sangha. In fact, when we take refuge in the Three Jewels, there is no way any negative spirit can harm us. So, what is everybody talking about, what is everybody worrying about?

“Oh, that’s a Dorje Shugden person, I can’t go eat with them”.
“That’s a Dorje Shugden person, I can’t marry them”.
“That’s a Dorje Shugden person, I can’t be seen with them”.
“That’s a Dorje Shugden person, they can’t come to the Dharma talk”.

A final note, since Dorje Shugden is advertised and marketed by some Tibetan lamas as very negative and evil, the people who practice Dorje Shugden are the greater ‘sinners’ on the face of Tibetan Buddhism. So since the people who practice Dorje Shugden are the greatest sinners, the ones with the most sin because they are praying to the Devil, they are praying to an evil spirit, they are sinners. Shouldn’t the good Buddhists have more compassion for these sinners? Shouldn’t they invite the sinners to their teachings and talks, and slowly teach them and turn their minds against Dorje Shugden instead of expelling them, segregating them and biasing against them? Isn’t that simple? Didn’t Jesus Christ teach, “to love thy enemies”? To be meek, to take care of the meek, to take care of the humble, to love thy enemies. If one hits you on one cheek, to give your other cheek to them, even Jesus Christ taught that. The Buddha said the same thing.

If we read the ‘Eight Verses of Thought Transformation’, what does it talk about? To forgive those that harm us, to let go of those who harm us. The great master Dipamkara Srijnana Atisha specifically invited one old monk from India with him who used to scold and criticise Atisha. Everything Atisha did, this monk would just scold him and criticise him. Atisha brought this monk with him to Tibet in order to take care of the monk, and also for Atisha himself to develop great patience. So instead of chasing this monk away who always create problems for Atisha, Atisha kept this person near him in order to generate more compassion, more Bodhicitta and to reach a state that even the people who harm him, he has no hatred and no anger towards them.

For great practitioners of Buddhism, for great practitioners of Lojong, the mind teachings, the mind transformation teachings, the great practitioners of Bodhicitta, they actually keep many harmful people around them. They keep harmful people around them, people that make harm, trouble, difficulties and in turn, always try to help and assist them, always try to give them another chance, because it is a practice of unending compassion, that their compassion does not end.

When the person says good things to you, does good things to you, you like them. When the person does bad things to you, you do not like them. The whole spirit of Buddhism is to reach equilibrium, not to hate or love but to treat everybody equally.

So, as Buddhist practitioners, shouldn’t the Tibetan lamas invite, reach out and specifically send invitations to Dorje Shugden people and invite them to the teachings, the rituals, and gatherings because they need more blessings than others because they are the biggest ‘sinners’. Shouldn’t they love the sinners more and have more compassion for the sinners instead of segregating them and chasing them away? Now, that is assuming that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit. But the argument and the debate here is not that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit, of course, he is not. All the same, people who practice Dorje Shugden should not be segregated or separated.

Today’s talk was about how it is impossible for Dorje Shugden to harm someone, especially someone like the Dalai Lama. It is impossible for Dorje Shugden to harm anyone who has refuge. It is impossible for Dorje Shugden to destroy the purpose of Tibet. It is impossible for Dorje Shugden to not help Tibet get its country back. It is impossible for Dorje Shugden to harm people in any way, shape, or form. And also, why don’t the high lamas bind him? Why don’t the high Lamas do something and change him? If the high lamas do that and change him and bind him and make him swear not to harm anymore, then all our problems are gone.

If the high lamas keep talking about how much harm Dorje Shugden can do, but they don’t have any powers or rituals to bind him, it makes them pretty impotent looking, doesn’t it? And then, they put on, their students put on Facebook, “Oh, that person does Dorje Shugden, don’t go near them. That person does Dorje Shugden, they are bad. That person does Dorje Shugden, they are not good.” That is very bad, that segregates people. That is very bad.

Tibetan lamas should not advise people against any spiritual practice. Tibetan lamas should let people practice whatever religion they want, and if they choose a religion that the Tibetan lama do not like, the Tibetan lamas should not comment and say their religion is bad. Can you imagine a world leader, a prime minister or a president saying, “Everybody can come to my political talks except Lutherans. Everybody can come to my political talks except Baptists. Everybody can come to my political talks except Catholics because Catholics are evil. Everyone can come to my political talks, gatherings and parties, they can be my friend except Jews. Imagine if a world leader of a democratic and free nation was to stand up and say something like that and segregates one religion.

In America, you practice any religion you want but the government, the leaders, the presidents, the governors, the mayors, and the civic leaders, all cannot show any bias or prejudice or hatred or make any laws against you because of religion. America was created for that reason. America was created for religious freedom because the Quakers and the Shakers could not practice their religion in England, so they got on a boat, went over to America, did away with the American Indians and they started practising their own religion. How did they do away with the Indians? They pushed them more to the west and started taking over the east.

America was created specifically for religious freedom, so how can an American person in America say you can’t come to my centre if you practice Dorje Shugden? You can’t come to Dalai Lama’s talk if you practice Dorje Shugden? This is against democratic principles. America stands for that. I am from America. I am American, so that is against democratic principles to restrict someone from doing something simply because of their religion.

Then if you want to say Dorje Shugden people will harm the Dalai Lama? Look, there are good and bad people in every religion. There are good and bad people in every race, economic background, gender, and religion in the world. There are good and bad Dorje Shugden people, there are good and bad Christians, good and bad Jews, good and bad Muslims. There are good and bad Hindus. It’s just the way of the world; there are good and bad Americans, there are good and bad Indians, good and bad Chinese, good and bad Japanese, you can’t just say because they practise Dorje Shugden, everybody is bad. How can that be? How can Dorje Shugden people be bad suddenly when the practice has been around for 400 years? That doesn’t make sense.

Conclusion number one, it’s impossible that the Dalai Lama can be harmed by Dorje Shugden. It is impossible that any high lamas can be harmed by Dorje Shugden. It is impossible any sincere Buddhist can be harmed by Dorje Shugden because they have refuge. It is impossible that any monk or nun can be harmed by Dorje Shugden. It is impossible that anyone who trusts their particular Dharma Protector can be harmed by Dorje Shugden. So if that is the case, who can Dorje Shugden harm?

Second, high lamas should get together, do a ritual and send Dorje Shugden into the light. Then we do not have to worry about it. Third, instead of segregating, spitting on and saying very vulgar things to Dorje Shugden people, they should actually show compassion and love. We should show compassion, love, tolerance and understanding to someone who thinks different than us, who practises a different religion, who is a different colour, a different gender, a person who is into an alternative sexual orientation. However different the other person is, instead of always looking at the differences, why don’t we look at the similarities, we are all humans. If we do that, it will be a much happier and nicer world.

In conclusion, this was not set to show any disrespect to His Holiness the Dalai Lama. I very much love the Dalai Lama and I respect the Dalai Lama. I wish the Dalai Lama long life, longer life, and much more success in bringing Dharma to many beings. Having said that, I will still be very loyal to my root lama, Kyabje Zong Rinpoche who gave me the practice of Dorje Shugden. There are hundreds and thousands of us in Tibet and outside of Tibet, and in India who continue to practise Dorje Shugden. Not because we want to counter the Tibetan leadership, but because we have made a commitment to our lama. It is as simple as that.

Last but not least, I will continue sharing my religion, Buddhism, and within that the protector Dorje Shugden to people who are karmically connected. All laws in democratic countries especially in the CTA (Central Tibetan Administration) should not be bias against someone due to their religion. That is how I feel.

Thank you very much.

This transcript has been edited for clarity and ease of understanding.

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