Enjoying Music is negative?
(By Tsem Rinpoche)
I have a question about one of the precept vows I found on your website. The eight one: to refrain from “Wearing jewellery, cosmetics or perfume, enjoying music or TV” I do not fully understand why this things have to be refrained from. especially since I have been playing guitar since I was a little boy, the refraining from enjoying music doesn’t seem to me like something I would want to do. It doesn’t seem like something like enjoying music would create negative karma.
Please explain to vow to me -From Mark
**********************
Dear Mark,
All humans have a perception of things. That perception may not be the reality of an object. The object itself has no real reality. the object cannot fulfill or not fulfill our perceptions. It all comes from our side and our side alone. But our perceptions of it and how we react to it may have adverse effects or positive.
Some people may see money as:
1. A way to benefit the sick
2. To buy status
3. To have security
4. To Take care of parents/family
5. To travel
6. To have a good life
7. Etc, etc, etc..
So because of the different views towards money, what money actually is, is empty… But our perception of money and what it can do will make us perhaps:
1. Work hard
2. Be sneaky
3. Steal
4. Start a business
5. Study harder
6. lie
7. Beg
8. Etc, etc, etc.
With the vows, some of the vows apply more to one individual than to another.
Everyone has their own hang ups, perceptions and upbringing. So when we take the vows, it is not playing music is negative, but our attachment to it is. So if the vows says you can’t play music and you get upset, that is the point of the vow…LOL. Why do you get upset? Because you can’t have what you think makes YOU happy? Why is it if you don’t have music you are unhappy? Why does that disturb you? Why is that ‘upsetting’. These questions are for contemplations to understand the workings of the mind better. When you understand your mind better, you can overcome wrong perceptions and all the problems we make arising from it….
So the vows are not suppose to stop you from enjoying what you like or labelling it negative..It is more the perception of what you like. The vows help you to step back and see the reality of your attachments, likes, dislikes, activities and where they bring you….
I hope this helps.
And keep the music playing please…
Tsem Rinpoche
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Dear Rinpoche,
From the explanation on the vows, i understand more that it is my own perception that make me feel the pain, it is not the vows. The perception that if I lost certain of the routine I have, I might not be happy. Thus, I am attached to the leisure and are afraid of the pain.
Thus, the vows are like a checkpoint for us to see how much attachment we have. It is a good contemplation for me to know about myself more. The attachment and the delusion.
Thank you Rinpoche
Bowing to Rinpoche’s lotus feet, with love
Freon
Actually, I’m like a lay man who only know that we should follow the vows in order to refrain us from doing negative activities. I didn’t know the benefit of taking vows in deep meaning.
Thank you Rinpoche for this sharing which made me clear with the meaningful of taking vows. By taking vows, it actually helps us to contemplate why are we still get attachment in something and finally help us to overcome our wrong perceptions on everything.
感谢仁波切的言教，提醒我们应往内心思考，想要的未必是须要的，应以戒为前提。
Thank you Rinpoche for the explanation. Thank you Marks for the question. It helps us to contemplate, to step back and see the reality of our attachments.
Dear Rinpoche,
Thank you for the wonderful explanation.
It is really what we perceives that gives rise to our attachments. When I first made a vow to Rinpoche to stop drinking, I was worried and skeptical of how I will end up. Will I be unhappy? Will I lose my friends? Will I be upset and craved for alcohol?
The commitment to my guru is what kept me going, and I must admit…even without drinking or socialising… I am not missing anything much. Alcohol do not make me a better person or a happy person. Without it, I am still functioning.
Thank you for the wonderful article, I will know better how to explain to my friends in future on refraining from certain things or attachments is just how we perceive that attachment.
This was a response from Ivonice Powell (Exeter, England): 7 pr 2014
That was an excellent explanation of the point of taking vows, it caused me to sit back and evaluate my own attachments to the things that i perceive as making me “happy” ( is music ) and why was it i myself felt aggrieved at the prospect of one day having to give up that which i thought was making me happy, i have pondered this before on numerous occassions, but the clarity with which you spelt it out was an inspiration for me, thank you Rimpoche
It was a good question asked by Mark and a very clear explanation from Rinpoche in reply to that question and i believed the same will apply to ‘wearing jewelleries, cosmatic and perfume’. Thank you for sharing.
This was an excellent question and I love your answer Rinpoche.
Thank you to both.
I enjoy music very much too. 🙂
Andre
Thank you Rinpoche for making me see how my attachment to things like music or food is what makes me unhappy, when I don’t have them or not enough of them. Music or food in themselves do not cause my happiness or unhappiness.Thus liking music is not negative.It’s my negative perception.
Vows actually help us. They make us step back and see our attachments for what they really are.
Hence, we can enjoy music. We should just not get attached to it. Then it will not make us unhappy, when we don’t have it or don’t have enough of it.
Very very clear explanation Rinpoche, Thank you for sharing. I understand more now and can explain to my friends hehehe 🙂
Thank you Rinpoche for this clear explanation . I used to think holding a vows is very difficult because vows restrict us from doing things that we think is good to us, after knowing the Dharma I have fully understand that the vows is to free us from all the unhappiness that we experience by holding on the vows every single day tit can lead us to ultimate happiness .
Dear Rinpoche, I’m too attached to music. But I’m not the type that won’t feel right if I don’t listen to it. My type is like I just kept on singing and singing and singing. Even when I get bored with the song, my mouth will just automatically start singing. At least I’m not obsessed with music until that kind of stage. Thank You Rinpoche for sharing.
Rinpoche, this is a wonderful answer for such an interesting question. Some people claim that the rules of Buddhism are very imposing but in actuality it is more tailored towards some individuals more than others.
Rinpoche’s dharma teachings are always so clear and made easy to understand. This teaching would not been possible if not for the questions asked by Mark. Thank you to all the Marks out there will be asking more questions so more people like me can benefit from Rinpoche’s answers and teachings.
For those who have taken Boddhisattva vows, this downfall is about wasting time due to strong attachment to sense pleasures. Wasting time is bad in a worldly sense, but when we have taken the Bodhisattva vows, then it is really the wrong thing to do because the time spent could have been used more beneficially for the sake of other sentient beings.
Thank You Rinpoche for sharing this post. We are all so blessed to be able to get the answers directly from Rinpoche. I guess I’m like most of the others who once was confused why the vows ask us to refrain from wearing jewellery, cosmetics or perfume, enjoying music or TV… Like Mark said in the question, it does not bring any negative karma (as how we understood it), why can’t we do that?
With Rinpoche’s clear and simple explanation using money as an example. I now have a clear idea of the meaning of the vow. The vow is not to imprison us but in fact to liberate us from all of our attachments towards many things that we thought we aren’t attached to.
Just like how Rinpoche said, “the vows help you to step back and see the reality of your attachments, likes, dislikes, activities and where they bring you…” We all should really step back and reflect upon our inner self and see with our own eyes of everything inside us.
I’ve always have the same question as Mark did, because my aunty once told me that singing is not good, not even humming, especially when we are in holy places. I’ve been very confused because I did not see why can’t we enjoy music but now I finally understood. There’s nothing bad about it but its the attachment, its how we are attached to music/ entertainments.
Ah, i have gained much insight here! i agree with David – we must have an understanding. We need to put things “in place”, like what Uncle Eddie mentioned. It is so important that we depend on the wisdom and compassion of the guru, so that we do not mess up things with our egocentrically generated erroneous views! Thank you very much, Rinpoche. Thank you Mark, and all you great people for the wonderful sharing! 🙂
I remember having the same question as well when I first encountered the eight precepts. I thought to myself, duh?, if Buddhism is like that then it is probably not something for me. No thank you.
Then about six months ago, I tweeted Rinpoche asking Rinpoche a similar question and his reply to me was to study Buddhism and engage in deep practices and that music and Buddhism go well together!
So I was like, fantastic! This is more like it. What a breath of fresh air! Maybe I still can play guitar, sing eighties songs badly according to my daughter who loves songs from the eighties for some reason, and get inspired listening to John Lennon and the like.
Fast-forward 6 months later, today, after taking Rinpoche’s advice to study Buddhism, my music room has turned into a chapel and my guitars and amp sit idly waiting for a “revival”. To be continued…
Dear Tsem Tulku Rinpoche,
I do really agree that we should take a step back to contemplate on our likes, dislikes, attachments etc, etc.
It is really undeniable that we strive hard to earn money. Being a 17 year old student who has just started to gain some insight into the Dharma, I always hear people around me telling me to get a good job and earn a lot of money so that you won’t be looked down by others, and at the same time you can help your own family members to support their financial needs.
With these threads of sayings and opinions from other people, I feel so torn in between. My urge to earn money and own a luxurious home in the future is so strong. I always feel, that with money, I could satisfy myself. Yes, not until I came across Rinpoche’s post on ‘Something’s Wrong,’ where Rinpoche explained a profound extract from Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo in detail. I suddenly felt everything Rinpoche just said was entirely applied in my life, especially the fact that Rinpoche mentioned on ‘When you’re having dilemma in choosing what you want to do and what you should do’….I find it so meaningful to me, and I thank Rinpoche for giving me some sort of comfort that having the dilemma is a good sign.
However, I would like to propose a question. I have this friend that I feel very annoyed with. It’s not because she’s a bad person, it’s just that she is quite clingy and actually gets jealous when I talk to my other classmates. She would tease me and say all sorts of ridiculous things to me like, ‘So you have a NEW best friend now…’ or even sulk the whole day.
The worst part of everything is, THERE WAS NO END TO IT! It happened when I started secondary school in 2009, but the problem hasn’t escalated to that extent of her getting possessive yet. It has proceeded until now, year 2013, where I had become her best friend.
My question will come soon after explaining this incident. There was one year that I tried to get rid of her from my life. It was secondary four, where things had quite a change. I started to ignore her completely, such as not responding to what she says, or not even greet her. Sooner or later, we started to become distant and further apart, and I thought I was happier without her because I was with another friend who was more jovial and cheerful.
All of my judgements and assumptions backfired me, as I felt much guiltier and lonelier than before. That new friend whom I recently befriended distracted me from pursuing my studies. So, I mustered up all my courage to face that friend of mine again.
After gaining more knowledge on the Dharma, I realised all of my meetings with her are a result from karma connection, and with that, I feel really guilty for all my actions. The lamrim says that even an insult, or any sin that you think is small, could eventually hurt you more than you could ever imagine. (That is how I understood it)
So, what should I do now? I want to really repent, but I don’t know how. I feel still annoyed at her because of her clingy nature, but I ignoring her and not treating her well would demerit me and refrain me from gaining full enlightenment.
I want to be liberated from all these agony. Please help me, Rinpoche.
Thank you.
I really like these teachings on the fact that it’s never the object that is intrinsically good or bad, but how we let it distract our minds or how it deepens our inner samsaras.
I thought it quite apt to share this teaching that we just received from Rinpoche yesterday (13Feb), where he gave another explanation about something similar. He talked about clothes in this instance, that it is never the clothes that are the issue but when we want to wear nice things, we have to ask ourselves why it is that we spend so much time and money on what we put on? Is it just to make us more attractive, and therefore increase desire in others for us? In this case, wearing nice clothes and being preoccupied with obtaining nice clothes because a cause for creating even greater samsara for ourselves. We eventually create the cause for desire to increase within ourselves too, to a point that we become just like animals, preening our feathers, putting on different colors or grooming ourselves just to attract a mate.
Alternatively are we dressing up and putting on expensive branded clothes so that we can make ourselves look “higher”, wealthier, more important and thereby get respect? If so, then the act of dressing up becomes a means for putting others down and bringing ourselves up. If we do this enough, then we eventually create the karma for ourselves to be put down in the future, to be in lowly places where other people will exert their authority over us.
Interesting, isn’t it? That the same piece of clothing can bring so many different results to us, based purely on WHY we are putting on that top or buttoning up that dress. Ultimately though, there is nothing intrinsically bad in clothes (or anything for that matter!) – it’s what we do with it, the results it brings to us and how much it increases virtue or suffering for ourselves and others.
this was an interesting post and i also enjoyed reading people’s comments. It is a simple premise yet has many depths to the answer. On the superficial level, the vow appears to restrict our ‘enjoyment’ yet as Rinpoche has elucidated, it is not our enjoyment of the music that is the problem but our attachment to that enjoyment. And that is the main problem of all our attachments – that we cling on to the attachment which is actually a mirage. It is inherently empty of existence yet we think it is solid and concrete and permanent and will bring permanent happiness. It is the same with everything else which we think brings us happiness – from a delicious meal (which is even faster to see as impermanent since we consume it!) to material objects, like a favourite outfit or accessory. Our attachments to all these create our suffering when we lose them. Once we realise that our attachments are the issue, we can reprogram ourselves to not place so much emphasis on these external factors. Easier said than done but we have to start somewhere.
Why listening to music is creating negative karma, it is not because the music itself is bad, but because it enhance our attachment, our past. Many times when we listen to music, physically we are listening to the music, but the fact is we are actually listening to our past, our memory.
When we keep holding on our past, there is no way for us to let go. when we can’t let go, how can we gain attainment? activity that not helping us to gain attainment, that will be negative karma, because it will make us dwell more into the samsara.
Dear Rinpoche, thank you for your kind answer! Vow is not to restrict us to do anything, but it is more to examine what our reaction is towards a particular vow. Like Rinpoche describe above, when we don’t get something then we get upset, that’s it. We should examine ourselves, why we get upset for it? How we should avoid getting upset? what really makes us upset?
And when we can control our mind or not to attach or dependent on something else, then we are free and nothing can control our moods. Vow is not something to tell us what to do or why not to do, but vow tells us how we should control our mind and how we should see all our emotions. By controlling our mind, we get ‘freedom’ at some level.
The answer is very clear and straight forward. The reason of taking vow is for us to let go of something such as.. not listening to the music, being vegetarian etc. Is to cut off our attachment. at the same time we also learn how to check and control our mind. It’s a way to change our perception and transform. Hence when we are holding our vows, it’s very good if we could do a mind check every night before we go to bed.
Thank you Rinpoche
I find that we have different attachments at different stages of our lives. Therefore we need not focus so much on one thing and neglect the other, because there will come a time where you don’t even know you will miss the things that you spent so much time (and sometimes money) indulging in before. I respect people who hold their vows well, and if we don’t, we need to do a self-check and identify our attachments.
I think when we practice the Dharma, we must have an understanding of why we are refraining from the certain things mentioned in the vows. Without this understanding and contemplation over its meaning and purpose, it will be a meaningless robotic pursuit.
I think a lot of practitioners are guilty of this including myself and so we do not create the merits necessary for real transformation to happen. When there’s no transformation, not only we don’t grow, when situations arise that creates doubts in our mind, we get swayed by our doubts. Hence, study, contemplation and meditation must go hand-in-hand.I don’t mean to give such a Dharma talk but when I see this post, I see the danger of knowing and not applying what we know.
This made me think certainly on how our mind works. When we are “forbidden” to do something we feel brings no harm and even in some instances gives us “pleasure”, we feel it to be a trap because we base the vow on “giving” up on something we like or want to do.
However based on what I understood from Rinpoche’s explanation, it is not giving up on that very thing per se… it is looking deeper into our physche and coming to the realization it is the attachment to these things that we are actually giving up and not the thing or act itself. Because the thing or act itself is entirely dependent on our perception and attachment to it.
e.g. In the simple example of playing the guitar, if it gives us so much pleasure to the point whereby it causes us displeasure when told we cannot play the guitar anymore is THE very attachment we need to rid off. It is NOT the playing of the guitar or the music in itself that is bad, it is the fact that we use the playing of guitar or the music as an attachment – giving us a false sense of pleasure.
If playing the guitar or music gives us so call temporal pleasure and we realise it merely as that, “giving” it up should not matter in the least because, we know it is precisely that… a temporal pleasure which does not control us.
Hence, for me, the lesson is that we are ultimately in control of our feeling of pleasures or displeasures and not the elements around us… and with that in mind we can have everything or lose everything it should not effect how we feel and we have some state of equilibrium. That to me would be the ultimate non-attachment.
It is so true. It is our perception of the things that we have hence the attachment that we currently have. When I first heard about the 8 precepts, I was like… I think I better do it when I am ready. But that readiness is still not here yet. At least now I am ready. I am learning everyday not be attached to many things because I was so attached to many things last time.Rinpoche’s reply is always precise, straight to the point and easy to understand. Thank you for such the meaningful question Mark and also Rinpoche for the explanation.
I noticed that whenever I am unhappy or down I listen to music. Other times when I am okay I don’t listen to music. Does this mean music is used as a distraction for my mind? The mind is seeking a place of relief from unhappiness? In music certain chords bring the feeling of lightness and high energy, while certain chords bring the feeling of heaviness and low energy. A not so attached mind is a peaceful and happy mind. External circumstances don’t bring the mind down or unhappy. So it doesn’t need that much music for self absorption?
Yes every human being has perceptions of things, it is the mind that exerts the greatest influence on us. Fromthe core of our being we simply desire contentment. Contentment is the happiness in doing things that we like without limit. Contentment however big or small is always dictated by the mind. Of course it would be wise to establish a limitation of balance to whatever we do, but how many willbe able to achieve such a controllable habit. Hence, we have to devise an effective means to control our innermost mind to obiediently adhere to such a control. As practicioners of Buddhist faith, we believe vows are the most effective means to subdue our minds. Like our Guru said, vows are not to stop us from enjoying what we are doing, but purely to help us to step back to see the reality of our attachments, to overcome our wrong perceptions and impose a “balance of limitation”. Vows, therefore are in place to be used as push-buttons to check, examine and reflect our ourselves. Thank you, Rinpoche, once again for your valuable and wonderful teachings.
Dear Rinpoche,
Thank you for the explanation, it really made me think and contemplate on all my attachments.. it’s time to step back and look inward..
Thank you again.
With folded hands
Siong Woan
Thank you Rinpoche for the blog post. I like how elaborate and direct the answers are. Rinpoche is always so skillful in answering questions. We are so blessed to be able to ask questions and have them answered by Rinpoche! Thank you Rinpoche. 🙂
Also the rest of the Wheel of Sharp Weapons is here: http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/sutra/level3_lojong_material/specific_texts/wheel_sharp_weapons_dharmarakshita/wheel_sharp_weapons/wheel_sharp_weapons.html
Rinpoche’s response is very eloquently put and true.
If Mark is reading then I’d like to point out for him that it is typical (for people like us at least) to just take the first five precepts (no killing, lying, stealing, sexual misconduct, drinking), except on special Buddhist holidays, therefore it is not “required” to refrain from eating after noon, not listening to music, and so forth, so no reason to be worried in the first place.
Also in my own experience I was VERY into music and still am. However in the past few years I found myself refraining from listening to music until around 6 pm, as it made my mind distracted, more prone towards suffering, moving from one object to another, etc. So it was a personal choice not a vow in this instance.
Here is one of my favorite “poems” from The Wheel of Sharp Weapons which Rinpoche told me to read:
“(112) When musicians are playing a beautiful melody,
Should we examine the sound they are making
We would see that it does not exist by itself.
But when we’re not making our formal analysis,
Still there’s a beautiful tune to be heard,
Which is merely a label on notes and on players
That’s why lovely music can lighten sad hearts.
(113) When we closely examine effects and their causes,
We see that they both lack inherent existence:
They can’t stand alone, either whole or apart,
Yet there seem to exist independently rising
And falling events, which, in fact, are conditioned
By various forces, components and parts.
It is this very level on which we experience
Birth and our death and whatever life brings.
So please, in this world of appearances only,
Let’s always be sure what we do is of virtue
And shun all those acts that would cause us great pain.”
Dear Rinpoche,
I really enjoyed reading your response to such a fantastic question. I was asked the same question by a friend of mine when she asked me about the kind of vows monks take. I couldn’t give an insightful answer as yours (I had no clear understanding myself at the time), but I could understand why people see these things as an endeavour to limit enjoyment and restrict having fun.
In fact, I’ve just this morning read a chapter in the book “god Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything” where the author suggests that ALL religion relies on encouraging servitude among its followers and they most effectively do this by discouraging everything that is natural to humans and encouraging what is not (e.g. sex is evil, obedience and surrender to the masters is wonderful).
However, as you clearly point out, listening to music isn’t bad within itself, nor (I presume) is sex or even consuming alcohol. Thanks to your explanation, I think I understand it a little better now. We rely on these kinds of things to the point of distraction where our minds constantly focus on the external pleasures and attachments, rather than focusing inwards in order to achieve a better understanding of ourselves.
Even if the author of the book would claim you brainwash your students, or that any teacher aspires to the same aim, it’s easily disproved. If having lots of sex, listening constantly to music and getting drunk brought happiness, then – quite simply – why don’t these things bring happiness? In enjoying material things in abundance is the way to true lasting happiness, the majority of the word would be in blissful states. But it’s not.
The ideal, it would seem, would be to establish a balance, but a lot of people are unable to do this (myself included, needless to say). If one could listen to music but not be so attached to it or rely upon it for one’s happiness, or if one could drink or have sex in a way that these things don’t end up “owning” you, there wouldn’t be so much of a problem, if we could simply take or leave these things as they are.
But desire is insatiable. And all the while, in the futile attempt to satisfy our desires, we seem to be pulled further and further from gaining an understanding of our true selves and perhaps this is why these vows are in place – to allow us to hit the pause button for a time, stop, and reflect on who we really are?
Thank you again for your response to Mark’s great question, Rinpoche – it’s always a pleasure to find new areas of contemplation.
Kind regards,
Sandy
Hi Sandy, I am very much in agreement in what you have just shared here. And perhaps the very reason why many do not want to engage in a spiritual path, or take up a faith is because of all the mis-conception that religions poison everything. Big words like renounciation could very easily scare most people away.
It is great that these questions are raised by Mark and Tsem Rinpoche gave such a clear and thought provoking answer.
I particularly like when you relate this to taking vows or why the vows are in place to help practitioners, like a pause button, allowing us to stop and reflect on ourselves.
We all need many pause buttons….